alleybaggett.net ~ View topic

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

I've just picked up the book, The Green Collar Economy and I have to tell you that I LOVE THIS BOOK! This book is so good.....that I have to dedicate a special thread for it alone. Please get it and let me know of your thoughts here. Let's go back and forth here sharing each others thoughts and ideas concerning this book and what it talks about.

The Green Collar Economy lets you know how we can get off of foreign oil NOW/INSTANTLY, how we can save our planet NOW/INSTANTLY, how we can grow our economy NOW/INSTANTLY, how can improve national security NOW/INSTANTLY and how we can ALL be apart of this.

I ask with all my heart that you PLEASE read this book and come back here and let's talk about what we are learning here.

Thank you!

Much Love,
ALLEY
Very Happy

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 266

Hey Alley,.....

Didn't know how to move it to a new thread.

lots of love
mbeal78

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

Mbeal....Do you mind moving your post to a new thread under environment because this thread is more for people who purchase the book and come here so we can discuss the book. This thread is meant to be sort of like a book club.....but just for THE GREEN COLLAR ECONOMY.

Thanks!

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

I didn't know that solar panels were once on the roof top of the White House. Did you?? Why were they ever taken down? That makes no sense!!

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

I'm gonna read it this weekend. You better be able to support your thoughts. Very Happy

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

MT, you're going to read the book this weekend? YAY!! Let's discuss what we are reading here....and share our thoughts on the facts.

Very Happy

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Soo, finally got to reading the book. I must say it started off pretty depressing.

With the current economic downturn, I got to thinking, "what would have the most impact right now?"
Mr Jones covered a lot of ground, but the one thing I think we truly need now is a full-out investment in alternative power source. To get the peeps back to work, the new president and congress should spend money to develop wind, solar energy. If it's true that wind energy alone can provide 45 percent of our country's needs, it will have the greatest impact. The fact that we need people working ASAP makes it a better joice than nuclear. Nuclear plants take too long to build. I'm gonna have to agree with you on this. Nuclear energy is not a solution. I hope our new Pres discards this solution. Add the fact that there is still no real solution to discarding the waste products from the plants makes is another negative. Plus, it requires a lot of water to cool which also results in re-directed water that could be used elsewhere.

From what Mr Jones cited, jobs in producing the solar panels and parts for the wind generators will provide the country with much needed work. The fact that these solutions require little regulations and are easy to produce (compared to nuclear plants), will give us results faster. Imagine the native american indians finally being able to get a decent living wage from all these wiind generators on their land. To go along with this effort, the idea of building mini power grids to provide this energy should be developed. Our national power grid should be upgraded at the same time to be more efficient and to be able to use the new sources. Instead of entire cities having a blackout, only a few blocks get affected. Heck, if everyone had their homes powered by solar, no one has to worry about blackouts anymore.

Rank: Rookie Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 72

Rank: Rookie Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 72

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

page 108, Fewer targets, more partners. Instead of forcing the other side into submission with strength, offer alternatives instead. Reading this - it makes a lot of sense. Politically, maybe this is what Obama is trying to do. I cite the fact that he asked the Dem party leadership to keep Leiberman in the caucus even though Leiberman campaigned against him. We'll see if he truly will have Republicans in his administration. That will be the best example. Let's hope he does.

A line from the book, "If you rush into a situation looking for enemies, you will always find plenty. If you go into a situation trying to find friends and allies, you will almost always find at least one."

An enlightened Buddha line no doubt.

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

Rufus,

Natural gas is just another fossil fuel. There are 3 types of fossil fuels: oil, coal and natural gas. The burning of fossil fuels is the biggest contributor to greenhouse gases and therefore the biggest contributor to global warming. WE MUST STOP BURNING ALL FOSSIL FUELS!!! If the wind turbines don't always spin.....then that's when we must do several things: Build more Hydropower which can be done where there is any large body of water. Build more solar panels grid/units. This would be to supply to the masses. We should build more wind farms in ares of the mid west where the wind is the strongest. If we do these things.....we could generate enough energy to supply the entire US and then some. If it's not windy in one area.....well....we would be getting our energy from the sun....and when it's not sunny in some other areas.....then we could get our energy from the water (Hydropower). If we were to have our solar panel grid/units built in areas where the sun is extremely HOT.....then that could possibly cover all of the US....without needing additional energy supply. Our government needs to also fund these technologies so that they can expand and upgrade their current technology.

I'm no scientist or anything but wouldn't it be GREAT....to develop a wind mill/turbine whose head rotates with the direction of the wind and the blades would be so light that a breeze would turn the blades??? Hmmmm.....maybe if we had the funds to develop and test these technologies in order to advance them.....then maybe we would see a better energy product?

Anyway....MT...you are right about what you said. You see...if you just read around and do the research.....you will find out the truth. It's amazing....SOMETHING SO SIMPLE can do such big things in our country! What moved me MT....right from the beginning was the forward from Robert F Kennedy Jr. I loved the historical facts that he mentions. The author of the book....does mention some sad unfortunate facts in his first chapter. He talks about how minorities and poor people are being dismissed, used and etc when it comes to environmental issues. What happened to the people of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans is one example. It's SO SO sad what happened to those people and I am SO surprised that what happened hasn't been brought out more.....and the people of New Orleans haven't made "someone" accountable for the outcome of their mental/physical health. Also....the author goes into how according to the National Law Journal, they found that the amount of the penalty paid by the polluter for cleanup was an average of 500 percent higher at sites with majority white populations. Geezzzz...I wonder why the polluters prefer to pollute minority communities instead. This reminds of a documentary that I saw.....where the government was contaminating the water in Cape Code by not properly cleaning up chemical waste and people who lived in this area were sick....women were getting breast cancer. Mostly black people lived in these homes that were right next to the water. Here's the story although they seem to leave out the part where the government actually was involved in not properly cleaning up chemical waste/etc. http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081013/NEWS/810130304

WOW! When I think of Cape Cod....I think of light houses, pretty sandy beaches and yummy food.....but the truth is that....Cape Cod has a BIG BIG problem with pollution, toxics in the water system and a BIG BIG problem with developing breast cancer due to all the toxics found in Cape Cod from the various sources. In 2004, breast cancer deaths per 100,000 women in the US was 24 and 22 of them were from Rhode Island.

Going back to the book....I like how the author also pays tribute to our American Indians and their respect for our Earth. After we took over.....we just came in and rapped the dirt and we still are.

I have to admit. I haven't finished the book. It's usually pretty difficult for me to sit and read a whole book because I am always SOOOOOOO busy.....but I definitely plan to....and as I do...i will come here and share my thoughts with you.

For now you can go to http://www.greenforall.org
to find out more about the green economy and how you can be a part of this amazing new movement.

Peace and Love,

Very Happy

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

I'm going to page 108 right now!

Isn't this book, great MT??

It's so simple, common sense and a fantastic solution to our two biggest problems!!

I will KEEP reading for sure.

Very Happy

Rank: Rookie Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 72

Alley, The wind farms here in SD (the state with the highest potential for wind energy production in the US) are populated by the latest, most up-to-date turbines there are. They are MUCH larger than those you may be more familiar with in the Socal area (like around Palm Springs/Indio). The stanchions alone (the piers or "poles") are over 300 feet high - that’s the equivalent of a 30 story building.. The blades are around 150-180- feet long - making the whole structure the height of a 40-50 story building. They DO move with the slightest breeze (not to say there are many days with ONLY a slight breeze here) and they DO turn to which ever direction the wind is blowing from. Our biggest problem at this point is that there are not enough transmission lines to get this power TO anywhere. Here are some links to info about our local wind farms.

http://www.hendricksmn.com/wind_towers.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Ridge

In addition to this ridge which runs through three states (Iowa, Minnesota and SD), there are several other similar geographical features in the area that are under development.

Please note that there are environmental concerns with wind tower construction and placement as well. Some are hinted at in the wiki- article. Specifically, this area is also smack in the center of what is known as the "Central Flyway". It is a narrow sort of aerial "highway" or "corridor" along which the vast majority of waterfowl (geese, ducks, cranes, storks, heron) raptors (hawks, eagles, falcons) gulls, and songbirds migrate from their summer nesting and breeding grounds in Canada and Hudson's bay and the Arctic to the milder Winter climes of the Southern US and Central and South America. When a migrating bird encounters a 17 ton turbine blade, moving at 300+ miles per hour (at the tip), the bird is NOT going to win that battle.

There is also some noise pollution that impacts anyone living within about a half-mile of one of these things, and you don't want to have one between your house and the sun-light, unless you like your world looking like a strobe lit disco hall for several hours a day.

The real key to getting us independent of fossil fuels lies in being able to update the technology that runs the switching mechanisms of the "grid" over which the energy flows. To get it distributed more effectively. So that as more or less energy is generated by wind, tidal and solar power it can be shifted to where it's needed, or sourced from where it is available. Currently (pun alert) the grid is extremely oriented toward a consideration of the steady, inflexible supplies coming from hydro, coal and nuke sources as a base, with other energy treated as supplemental.

SD is also home to 4 VERY large hydro-power producers - part of the Pick-Sloan system along the Missouri River.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Missouri_River_dams

I am very familiar with these as in some cases I watched them being built when I was a child, and have toured the powerhouses of all of them and fish sometimes in the reservoirs created.

Oh, and BTW, we also have the largest land-area % of any state that is native owned (reservations) - at almost 1/4 of the entire state. They are also some of the most impoverished areas in the country. Now there's a group of people that need lots of help and could benefit greatly from the leases paid by wind-power companies to site turbines, although I think they would have issues with the disruption of the land (and wildlife patterns) they would cause as well.

With you in spirit on this, but maybe more cautious because, well, they are/would be in my back yard - you know?

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

I agree with you Rufus.

Good points. I don't know much about tidal energy.....but I will look into it more.

XOXOO
ALLEY

Rank: Rookie Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 72

OOps, wrong thread.

Moved to Environment thread.

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

Rufus....great info but I'm just wondering.....have you or are you reading THE GREEN COLLAR ECONOMY??

This thread is for people who are reading the GREEN COLLAR ECONOMY....and then we come here and discuss the different chapters.

There is an environmental thread that you can post separate environmental comments there.

I do appreciate all of your insight! It's great to know.....that you care.

THANKS again and please keep posting!

Very Happy

Rank: Rookie Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 72

Sorry, giot it in the wrong thread. Will move it.

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

For the life of me, I can't recall where I left my copy of this book. I have like 20-30 pages left to read. I hate leaving things undone...driving me crazy. Evil or Very Mad

To be continued.

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

page 192, "enemies of change", second to last paragraph.

Never thought about the connection before. So, basically, the detractors of global warming are trying to divert attempt at going green by tugging at our economic strings. No longer are they arguing that it's not true, but are now saying we have more important things to worry about.

He mentions the 3 slogans that categorize their actions, "all of the above", "drill here, drill now, pay less", and "stop the war on the poor".
1. advocating for green technology by proposing something that is not, like oil shale development.
2. drilling for oil off shore because it'll make us less dependent on foreign oil, thus, cheaper. But fail to mention it will take 10 years development.
3. pretend that the impoverished are denied a decent living because they will pay higher if we don't drill.

Rank: Rookie Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 72

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it stand to reason that - reducing the demand on the grid by producing our own would reduce the amount the utilities have to buy from the suppliers. Since their costs go down, they don't have to increase rates, but rather decrease it proportionally.

On another matter re: wind turbines. Don't the use those double helix shaped ones. Wouldn't that solve the issue of those fan shadows you get from those propeller shaped turbines?

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

Rufus....why don't you get the book and discuss it with us here? I KNOW YOU WOULD LOVE THE BOOK!!!! and I would love to know of your thoughts as you read it.

This book is right up your alley. Wink

MT...just to let you know....on my free time...I've been doing lots of environmental campaign work....on line and locally.

I'm also still working hard on putting together a local environmental group...where we have discussions, readings, plans, share ideas, send out letters to congress, do experiments, have rallies and etc.

I hope I inspire others to do the same.

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

Great News!! The writer for this wonderful book will now be, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation at the White House Council on Environmental Quality. He will be part of Obama's team!

Wow...I AM REALLY REALLY confident now!

If you live in the US and you are able to....watch the Discovery Channel for a special on natural energy of the future. Here in CA it is airing at 10PM on Wednesday. You could go here to view a trailer of it and get more airing times info....

http://earththesequel.edf.org/

It's called: Earth: The Sequel

It'll be a good one to watch...even if your not an environmentalist. If you care about the future of our country...then you'll enjoy it.

Very Happy

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Our 6 pm news just had this story on today about Van getting appointed to the special advisor position. Looks like he starts Monday in DC.

Let's hope some good positive changes happen to/for our country.

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

watching earth the sequel now.

Official Model Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 2358

I know MT....isn't it great news about Van!! I am SOOOOO confident that he will make sure the job gets done....or should I say....we will get the jobs.....GREEN JOBS!!!

Green jobs can't be outsourced...it will improve our health....our economy....our technologies.

I just can't wait to see all of these changes happen!

Very Happy

Hooray for Obama to allow VAN to step up to the plate and help us out.

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Let's hope to hear more news like ths. Very Happy

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10204816-54.html

Rank: Veteran Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 989

Man, just read on Van Jones resignation. i guess in politics, your past can be an albatross around the neck. Hope he continues paving the green path, even if he has to do it from outside the WH.