alleybaggett.net ~ View topic

Rank: Total Noob Joined: 27 Jan 2006 Posts: 2

Hey guys.

I certainly understand the "real-world getting in the way of updates" issue though the slowdown has been a drag, but I've got some other (hopefully) constructive feedback.

Now, granted, this all comes from the perspective of one not putting in the work as you guys are and this is admittedly just one fan's opinion but: what's with the tits?

From the start I was drawn to your site and the work you do because of the highest quality in design and story and sense of fun. And one of the main things I appreciated about the overall design of your characters was their gorgeous and varied designs and body shapes. You had slim figured heroines as well as one or two amazonian types. But I've noticed a trend in the short time I've been a member here (taking into account the older archival material, though) towards the outrageous proportions of the characters' chests. To each his own, but good God fellas!

At present only Flasher and SG seem to be retaining any sense of (relatively) proportionate breastage, but almost everyone else has been pumped up like they've got an air hose shoved up their asses. And this latest character - Fantasm - is like a grotesque freak show reject. This kind of design (which, to me, bleeds all of the attractiveness right out of the character) is one of the things that turned me off from sites like "Superheroine Central."

I hope maybe you'll do an opinion poll of your members or something so you can judge if maybe there are others who love the site, love the characters, but don't want to look at tits the size of Macys parade floats.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 309

Wow. Haven't heard this argument (one I've started many times in the past) in a long time. Now, while I'm not a fan of humongous breasts (sometimes there are exceptions, but rarely), at least Fantasm is a new character and not, as you put it, one of the women with an airhose up their ass. Personally I'm wondering how she's going to keep her balance if she ever gets into battle, along with whether she's a hero or villian and what her powers are. However, I agree with you. When Jeff upgraded to the latest version of Poser, he seemed to upgrade the cup size of some of the characters along with it.

The most glaring of these being Anna Konda, who used to look like Helena Bonham Carter and, after going up in cup size about 1000 times, looks nothing like the original. Spreading Eagle is one that I don't have complaints about because she hadn't gotten an upgrade since her creation near the opening of the site. He bio had her breasts at a pretty big size, but if you look in the Casino at her old pics (where, along with the pinup section, many old versions reside), you can see they didn't really live up to that measurement.

The women with the already large breasts (She-Bulk, Wonder Broad and Suzy Homewrecker) benifited the most from the upgrades IMHO because they didn't need any upgrades. Flasher and Superior Girl seem to be the only ones with average to above average chests who didn't get an upgrade and came out just fine.

Personally, my tastes in breasts don't rely on size but proportion. There are women with small breasts that I think are as hot as women with large breasts.

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Sorry guy but I do not think you are going to get any sort of reply except what you have from HSHP. I've been checking this post since you first made it, wondering what sort of responses you were going to get from fellow customers and/or the website management. I think it safe to safe you arent going to get any after all. HSHP has replied to a few of my posts in the past, and I thank him for that. He is a long time customer like myself. I went for a long time not posting anything because my posts were seldom answered (a fact substantiated by simply scrolling back through the forum) and recently tried to remotivate myself to post again. One post was, I thought, a flattering one about Jeff's work (which I have always held to be excellent) and the other post was more along the lines of customer feedback. I regret doing both. Obviously our opinions as customers do not matter. Repeated requests go ignored, posts go unanswered. I have no idea if the site has a business plan or not. Battlechix gets updated ever 2-3 days, yet we have to endure silence for nearly two weeks, on a REGULAR basis. I deal with about 60 clients everyday. If even one of them mentioned just SOME of the things I have, I would be greatly concerned about my business prospects. Customer service is the finest point a business can address. It is vital to the long term health and well being of a business. As soon as I get a "whiff" something has upset or inconvenienced a customer of mine, I go out of my way, via email or phone or face-to-face discussion, to address his or her concerns. Sometimes the customer is wrong. Period. However, sometimes he has valid points. At least I know I work hard to help him with both. In all the years I have been a customer here, I have never used vile or obscene or remotely rude language. I have tried, as politely as I can, to convey my concerns. I truly feel my efforts have been meaningless. The site's design is a throwback to the mid 90's. WHEN is it going to be udated? Battlechix has gone through a few formats in that time. We have no idea what art will be coming out and by when. There are serious discrepancies about character development. If there are *real life* issues hindering site updates, couldnt there be a post mentioning them? A simple "away from the office" sign would work. I know two guys who run a website out of their basement and even they update every day or two. And they tell us when they will be unavailable and what the site can and cannot do. Is customer feedback appreciated? I dont know. I thought it was but must conclude it isnt. Are requests encouraged? What are the guidelines? SPEAK with us! We are you customers. We are all here because we adore (as we have said many times!!!) Jeff's artwork. We LOVE Justice Babes, that is why we pay you money every month! I check the site everyday. I am a "concerned customer." Can I please get some helpful, friendly feedback that lets me know you even CARE about my account? Please?

Rank: Casual Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 11

I don't normally have much to say about anything. However, reading over this topic for about the hundreth time, and just now reading Ben's comment, I have to say I kinda agree with him.

There have been times when many days or even weeks would go by without anything and it made me wonder "Whats the deal?" Concerning the Fantasm thing, at first I thought it was some bad joke. To me, she was a bit rediculous and somewhat hard to look at.

Back to the lack of updating thing, I remember look back at some other posts and Ron saying he had planned to update all the bios. Even something pretty basic like that hasn't been done.

I have more to say, but I don't want to start ranting unless I know someone is going to read it and/or respond to it.

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Thanks for the support. I wonder how many others have concerns but have not yet voiced them. Did you notice that after our posts, Rivals page 22 was posted? That is nice, I suppose. But it also says the management has been here, seen our posts, and chosen to disregard them. So in effect, sadly, I was right. Our opinions do not matter. The management will just do what it wants, and treat us how it wants. Hmmm. Does anyone else feel like they are trapped in a Fawlty Towers episode? You know, the classic British comedy about the hotelier who thinks his customers get in the way of his running the hotel. I have to admit I cannot even comprehend any of this. Next time any of us are poorly served in a restaurant or store, think on this scenario. All it would take is a simple considerate post here to soothe us, yet even that is asking too much, apparently. I am trying to determine if the webmaster finds us a nuisance or if Jeff is too proud or defensive to accept criticism. I really do not know. It may be neither. But we won't know as long as this silence continues. As long as we are kept in the dark, we have no choice but to guess at what is going on. The funny thing is, if I was a jerk or a rude person (or actually justified in this case!) I would just quit the site. But the truth is, I am none of those things. I am what any respectable business longs to cultivate: a sincere, appreciative customer. As such, I would like some feedback from the management. And since things have escalated to this point, I think a fall guy is not enough. I think the entire Justice Babes team (?) should take a few minutes out of their busy lives to explain what exactly they have been doing, what they intend to do, and how they feel they can best serve their customer base, in this case, us. Thinking back on that website I told you that is run from a basement, when one or both of them are gone, they post a note saying when and why they are unable to respond for a period of time. Nothing complicated, just basic customer service, like saying "thank you" and "we appreciate your business" and "please come back." I am proud of the fact that in all the various blogs and forums I have participated in over the years, I have never been considered a "troll." Anyone reading my posts can see a repetitive theme. I am a concerned customer (about to become a "very concerned" one--hint: this is jargon for pissed off from lack of attention or poor service!). So we are waiting. Will the Justice Babes management please do what any normal, sane business person would, and respond to their customers? Will you please let us know what is going on and when? Why haven't their been updates for MANY long periods? Are customer requests accepted? I still have emails from Jeff going back three years for requests that he said he would do, and has not. I have copies of posts in this forum that say certain things will be updated YEARS ago, and they still have not been updated. Where is the site going? What is happening? What projects are in the works and by when? What does the management think of us? I would like to think they recognize us as paramount to their business endeavors. Can you please, PLEASE, reply to us?

Rank: Casual Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 11

I'm just a tad hesitent to agree with you, Ben, that our opinions don't matter. Let me compare this to Blizzard Entertainment and their game World of Warcraft.

They have a forum for suggestions to the developers. Alot of the stuff people put on there don't get done. Thats not saying they don't care, the developers just don't think the ideas are any good or they don't like the ideas for whatever reason.

Now that i've said that, there is something else I would like to touch base on. Considering how long this site has been around (three to four years?) there are lots of characters, but very few comics. Most of the work seems to have gone into the BotM stuff. Thats not really a bad thing, but seems a bit one sided. Then again, I'm not sure how much work it takes to do one page.

If I was able to sit down in from of the crew that does this, and ask questions, they would probably be:
What are your plans?
What ideas do you have in mind?
Do you take suggestions seriously at all?
How much work does it take to produce this content?

Among other questions. By the way, Ben, I wouldn't mind talking with you sometime about what kind of ideas you've submitted and various other things.

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

I would be delighted to discuss my suggestions, or indeed anything, with you, of course. My questions are along the same lines as yours. My grievance is not that I want the site to be any particular way. Jeff is an exceptional artist, as I have said many times (again proven by simply flipping backwards through this forum). I am sure to be happy with whatever direction he wants JB to go in. No. I am not "concerned" about that. Instead, I am rapidly becoming angry at the SILENCE from the web site management. I feel like a customer ringing a bell at the help desk and being ignored. THAT is what I am upset about. All it would take is a few minutes for Ron or Jeff or whoever to reply. It would be a simple act of consideration not unlike the ones I extend toward my customers on a daily basis. Since this (and previous posts of mine) have been so ignored for so long and in such a repeated fashion, I have interpreted it as a "go away, don't bother us" action. Let me put this in perspective. I deal with anywhere from 50-60 clients everyday. My entire phone conversations are always taped. I am heavily monitored. If I were to treat any customer the way the management here has treated me, I would be fired on the spot. Period. I am very good at my job, largely because I am sensitive to my customers needs and wants. It is inconceivable to me that any businessperson would treat his or her clients otherwise. I am really beginning to feel like I am in a Fawlty Towers episode. Would it be THAT hard for the management to say something like, "hey guys sorry for miscommunications but things have been out of whack. What we are doing is "x" and we are planning on doing it by "y" We greatly appreciate your long time and continued patronage and hope to serve you for a long time to come." Think about it. Am I asking too much? This is a normal business practice. Why o why cant Jeff or Ron or whoever do this? Do we really mean so little? Also, this is only surfacing after a long time, but any sensitive reading of my past posts would reveal hints of this long ago. Your comparison to the World of Warcraft forum is good but not quite on target, I think. While WoW does have that forum, I am comparing this exchange to the actual dialogue a player would have with a GM. Have you ever noticed how the GM will address your questions, then ask how he did? That is a sensible business practice because WoW recognizes how important their customers are. I have found them to be a polite, responsive organization. They have a clear business plan they share with their customers. They also treat us politely and in a timely manner. I am very happy to be a WoW subscriber! I would like to continue to be a Justice Babes subscriber as well but that course of action is now in the hands of the management. Will they drive away a longtime (from the very beginning!) customer of both JB and Battlechix? Or will they apologize for the frustration they have caused me and answer our questions about the site's future and organization? Time will tell. Thank you again for you replies. It is nice to know somebody cares.

Head Pixelgrinder Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 425

Hi guys,

Thanks for posting your concerns, and I apologize for being so distant.

Yes, there has been a slip in updates, and we've fallen behind in posting new content, but we're working to change that. I could lay out a multitude of personal problems, but I understand that my problems should not become your problems. Sometimes a kick in the ass and a slap on the head is what I need to pull my head out of the doldrums and start rendering again.

This past week, I invested in some new software, Carrara 5 Pro for 3D work (importing Poser files for a better rendering engine) and Manga Studio, which will let me incorporate a more traditional hand-drawn flavor to the layouts. I've already starting using this in some of the newer are that's coming out now. It's gotten me a bit more excited about the 3D work again, which can become a little stagnant doing the same old thing all the time.

Which brings me to the stories. Adult material tends to be pretty much the same thing - girls fight, get naked, have sex, rinse and repeat. Ron and I are taking a look at the characters and the stories to see what people want from the updates - more action or character driven stories. It would seem character development and actual plots are more appreciated for long term commitments to material.

Boob size is another issue - some folks want bigger, some want more realistic. I prefer more accurate sizes, but counters show that bigger gets more views. I'll try and keep them within the realm of reality, though.
Wink

I've sent a page in tonight, and I promise to work at it over the next few days to get caght up and back on track for regular updates and feedback. My Battlechix forum had become a haven for spam-bots, so I recently changed the software out to combat that problem, but we lost all the log-ins in the switch. By all means, keep up the feedback, and thanks for kicking me out of my complacency.

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Yes! I feel like a real person again. Thank you Jeff! I mean that sincerely. I am looking forward to the updates and eagerly await the Rivals pages.

Let's test your memory a little, shall we? A while back, I asked you about the specific addon you used for the new (now current) Wonder Broad model. I saw it on Renderosity. It was one of the celebrity look alikes, designed to be like Liv Tyler, if I recall. What is the name of it? Is it still available?

And do you still intend to develop the "Card" game or pictorial?

Thanks!
Very Happy

Head Pixelgrinder Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 425

I believe the pack I used for WB is "Lilly", from DAZ3d
http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=3736&cat= - pretty sure that's the correct one.

Still mulling over the card idea, but have to work out the mechanics. It might be more of mock-up stats than a function game.

Very Happy

-Jeff

Rank: Casual Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 11

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but I didn't feel like this needed a different one.

Ben, you said earlier I could talk with you about some stuff. How can I get in touch with you outside of these forums?

Thanks

Head Pixelgrinder Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 425

Hit his little "email" button at the bottom of his post. Very Happy

Forum Admin Joined: 18 Oct 2003 Posts: 3670

Hi Guys-

Jeff and I will have a dicussion on the website road map of where JB is heading in a bit.

I think we should also maybe revisit members feedback again. Possibly through members polls again. Suggestions on what poll questions we should put up?

And YES, your voices/feedback is important to us- the idea of a membership comic site is to produce content and get some feedback from fans in terms of the direction things are going and that's how we've managed to last so long for a while.

People wanted to see more hardcore in the story line. We did that. Our sales/retention went up. People wanted to see certain characters developed out and we tried to do that as well.

Draconic there isn't a way for members to email each other and that is intended.

Feel free to dialogue with Benjamin on ideas and suggestions on a separate thread. It would be nice to get other members to jump on it.

I also apologize for not keeping up with things on the forum lately. I'm still sorting out somethings right now myself.... Trying to figure out what projects I should focus on and what projects I plan to fully develop someday that is a sure winner.

Like a TV Show, there are 'hits' and 'misses' and I'd hate to work on something that is a miss.

Blizzard started working on a Warcraft Adventure game a while back, not sure if anybody knows about it. It's suppose to be the adventures of Thrall etc. In the forum on a "Siera/KingsQuest" like game. They ended up scratchin the project. It's just an example of things that got started that ended up as a miss. (Supposely the voice of Octomis Prime and other big name voices were going to be enlisted/hired for the project).

One of the things we're concerned about with fully progressing with JB is the parody aspect of "known" comic chars. We would really like to move away from some of the main characters we have before we start digging ourselves a hole with the big boys.

Would fans like to see us work on a new group of character and flesh them out more?

Would you guys like to see the Franchise-X team story next?

Rank: Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Thank you Jeff and Ron for the replies. I, for one, am really glad to hear about the plans you have for Justice Babes. Although I do not have any specific demands, I can tell you some of the things I like the most. Of course, as my icon shows, I am THE Wonder Broad fan among the membership. Anything with her gets me interested! I have also taken a strong interest in Spreading Eagle. Other than those two, the only other characters who really piqued my interest are the Franchise X gals. Yes, Ron, I would enjoy seeing something with them.

I cant speak for others, but I "think" HSHP and I may be in agreement about character discrepancies. Like a good story. the artwork has to have verisimilitude, or seeming truth. It is very hard to accept a given character, only to then find her VERY different in an updated form. For instance, both Superior Girl and Gina (from Battlechix) have been shown to have pubic hair ranging from dark brown through light brown through snow white. Which is it? I don't much care, I just don't like it changing all the time. It breaks the spell, so to speak. The same is true for breasts and hair and so on. One thing I like about WB and SE is that they have stayed pretty much the same, even though they have been updated. Gals like Heavy Water and Anaconda and so on are just too unstable for me to get into I suppose.

I am not suggesting you copy anyone else but something both Nightwing and Mr X do that I like are these "Story Thus Far" pics. They are a sort of pinup/comic combo that tells a story without all the background and work (for Jeff!) that that necessitates. A sort of picture says a thousand words kind of medium. I am assuming that the work involved in making a comic page is far more than that required of a simple pinup, where continuity is not an issue.

Hardcore is for me! I prefer the B/G stuff but don't have any problems if others get into the G/G stuff. I particularly like the way Jeff handled WB in the second Slaves of the Clockwork King. WB was at her best. She was assertively sexy, yet in a convincing way. I actually believed she had been disappointed by men in general and saw "Mean Green" as capable of satisfying her. If I could truly have a request, please let's have some pinups from that scene! I would love some more Green/WB shots, the sexier the better!

Enough! I could ramble all night. Sorry but I am exhausted and need to get some sleep. Thanks again for allowing us to comment, praise, and criticize the site and your work. I feel like I make a contribution, no matter how small.

Head Pixelgrinder Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 425

Over time, the girls pretty much have to evolve a bit as the software and models make advances. Most of the original character designs when we first opened the site were done with what could be called a "second generation" female model (Victoria 2 for those on the Poser-know), and were later updated to use a third generation. Hair models and textures have made huge improvements as well. I've been hearing that in the next few months, we may be getting a Vicoria 4, or some type of Pro version, that will bend and flex better and more accurately. As the site has gone on for a few years, the art will change and adapt over time.

Ron and I have had several brainstorming sessions this past week, and are coming up with a roadmap for Justice Babes for the next year. We're going to shake things up a bit and try and get a publishing schedule down, so there will be a steady flow of content at regular, expected intervals. We're not done hammering out all the details yet, but our goal is to re-invigorate it, and make it more exciting for both ourselves and the readers. We'll keep you posted.